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The short film someone made is pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JFTmQCFHg

The short film makes no sense, as the 2 people talking are meat themselves.

They only look like they're made of meat. And they only look like they're made of meat to you because you know you're made of meat, and they look like you.

To them, they're just disguised as "what the creatures on this planet look like," which is obviously (to them) not meat, because they've never seen meat beings. To them, we are obviously not-meat, although how we appear is compatible with being meat. But silicone dyed the correct shade can look like meat. Stone painted the right color can look like meat.

And if you say that silicone and stone don't look like meat even when prepared to copy it, bear in mind that we are made of meat and very good at distinguishing it. Different races favor different attributes for distinguishing one person from another, hence why "they all look alike" is somewhat true for pretty much any "them" you care to name. Rocky from Project Hail Mary almost certainly thinks all humans look alike.


"probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

The two talking, and other races, are machines that cover themselves however they like. These two are machines with artificial skins. That is normal. Fully meat beings are not. At least that is how I always read this story.


Machines with artificial skins? I'll have to re-read the story, I thought the "meat" was matter and the aliens were made of energy.

No, it's literal meat that they have issues with. Machines are fine, hydrogen clusters are fine.

You should probably go watch the Terminator movies.

They only look like meat to blend in. It's the only way to figure out if they're made out of meat.

> They only look like meat to blend in. It's the only way to figure out if they're made out of meat.

Perhaps the makers of the movie neglected to read the story before creating a script?


In the story, the very idea of permanently meat-based beings appals them, and in fact one of them doesn't entirely believe it. So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea? "Blend in" with what? One of them doesn't believe what it's dealing with!

Like a sibling comment mentions, they talk about "meat sounds"... using meat sounds! Why would they find it surprising if that's how they are communicating in the short film? They are not depicted as communicating via telepathy or whatever.

(Yes, I understand the limitations of low budget shorts. But it doesn't mean it has to work...)


> So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea?

I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in?

They infiltrating to investigate. It needn't be an endorsement of the practice.


> I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in?

British spies in WWII wouldn't do that if the entire concept of what a swastika was baffled them. You have to understand at least basically what the thing you're looking at is in order to use it as a symbol.

If you have _no_ concept of people being made out of meat being possible, you don't dress up as people made out of meat. You do that if it's a common concept to you and you're trying to fit in.


But they mention species with a meat phase.

The concept of meat isn’t foreign. Meat that’s sentient and has no cybernetic parts or phase is.

And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.


> And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.

Only one of them has. The other is entirely surprised by the whole concept, and wouldn't even entertain disguising itself as something it has never considered and in fact it's being convinced during the story it even exists.

It's important for the story to work that one of the beings is entirely unconvinced and has to be told, as they discuss the matter, that this is an actual thing!


The one that looks super goofy?

He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.


Picking the right name is also important to blending in. For example: Ford Prefect.

Like the guy in Star Trek IV who took too much LDS.

Tom Noonan in the short film, yes.

> He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.

Blend with what? It (the alien) didn't believe these "meat" sentient beings existed when the story starts! It had to be told during the conversation. It thought there must have been machines somewhere who were the real sentient beings. How can anyone attempt to blend in with something one doesn't believe exists?

I understand the adaptation changes this, because there's no other way of working with human actors and also staying within budget. I understand the decision; I'm just saying it misses the mark and makes the story way less funny.

The way I envision this story is a couple of aliens, much like the scenes with the Simpsons aliens, hovering in a spaceship near Earth, discussing humans, with only one of them having actually seen a human. It doesn't work if both have seen them.

All in my opinion, of course, taste and sense of humor are completely subjective.


It's partly for dramatic purposes, to slow the realisation of the audience that they are aliens talking about people.

And, ofc, in-drama logic; the beings (of silicon or whatever) are/were blending in with humans to study them.


You have a point. Maybe if I hadn't read the story first it would work better for me.

In the story, there's little doubt these are aliens (though their physical form, if they have any, is never described). If there's any doubt, it's about what they are talking about -- but this is dispelled pretty soon too.

I think the real reason is simply budget.

I can understand the limitations of working around budget, and constraints sometimes spark some inventive storytelling, like in the pretty cool "The Booth at the End", which has a very similar minimalistic setting in a diner! In fact, this short somewhat reminded me of that much better show.

(If you haven't watched "The Booth at the End", I strongly encourage you to do so... it used to be free online ages ago, not sure now).


Well, if you think you can do a better job, make it happen. Make the film you want to see.

Why? Surely one can criticize a movie, book, videogame, etc, without being required to create a better one in turn.

I didn't hate it, and I always appreciate the charm of low budget productions. I'm just saying this particular adaptation doesn't work for me, and trying to explain why.

One low budget feature-length film about aliens I quite liked (though it obviously has a higher budget, and of course its own set of flaws; and to be clear I'm not arguing both productions are in the same ballpark!) is "The Vast of Night" [1]. I quite liked the actors and the directorial choices.

---

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6803046/


I interpreted this in two different ways:

* This is a virtual environment and the "meat actors" are depicting avatars of virtual/not-meat entities inhabiting that world. That's why there's inconsistencies with real life, for example the red guy's clothes. This was what I thought when I first saw this short.

* This was really an exchange of concepts and data in a language not really suitable for humans to understand. So what you are seeing is not what actually took place, but a translation. Some machine took the abstract data interchange and translated it to what it thought would be more appropriate for a meat head to understand, including setting it up in an environment that would make sense to a human. But it made some mistakes (the clothes, the weird behavior of some characters). This could have predicted AI Video slop, in a way.


You're interpreting it overly literally. Cinema can be as abstract as theatre or the written word.

It was funny when they talked about meat sounds using meat sounds.

Plus for the story to make sense, they have to be seeing Earth from scans/sensors, and one of them must in fact not be familiar with Earth at all, having disbelief in what the other is saying. But if they are both there, in a diner, they cannot be as skeptical.

I get the constraints of short indie films, I love them regardless, but in this particular case it completely misses the mark.


You just have to go along with the idea that skin provides no indication of meatiness and that the two aliens are Ford Prefect types, then the short film lands just fine.

I guess. It's still hard to mesh with the idea they don't believe these humans flap their meat at each other, or that they do not communicate exclusively via radio signals.

It doesn't match my idea that these are two energy/mechanical beings discussing a faraway planet from their spaceship or whatever, talking theory without actually seeing the beings they are discussing.


You've never encountered, say, a baffling code bug that couldn't possibly be caused by X, spent a day on it, and found out it turns out to be caused by X?

Oh yes. But never dressed up as X! :D

More seriously, what you describe is partly the short story. The short film adaptation doesn't quite work for me, for the reasons I explained in other comments.


Although there's other's that are a little more true to Bisson's dialog, that's my favorite for the actors, and especially the background music.

I like that the bearded one can't help cracking up when he says "the ones you probed": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JFTmQCFHg&t=285s

I'm a big fan of Tom Noonan (the character in red). He unfortunately passed away a few weeks ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Noonan


How does one get Tom Noonan to play in a film-school movie?

Oh No! Sad news! I missed hearing about it at the time.

I'm also a big fan. He's awesome in a bunch of things, but my favourite is Cain in Robocop 2. Such a great performance.

"Jesus had days like this. Hounded and attacked like a criminal. But like him, I don't blame you. They program you, and you do it"

"Frank. The Benzedrine's got my teeth wiggling. Cut it... Scopalomine, five mills per"


It's a good visualization but they skipped the punchline, which was the entire purpose of the story.

Yeah, I found this was definitely a case of "the book was much better than the movie", especially odd since most of the dialog was word-for-word, yet they skipped over the small parts that gave the story its lesson and relatability. Like the whole "officially or unofficially" part is one of my favorite parts of the original story, as it makes it seem like these intergalactic beings have to deal with the same concerns as Bob in corporate HR.

I think it highlights why the original text was uniquely brilliant and why it makes it reliably makes it to the top of HN every year or so.


Well said, thank you.

Agreed! I love the saxophone riff for the opening/closing song.

Also, funny to see Ben Bailey outside of a taxi cab.


That's Tom Noonan (who recently passed away) and Ben Bailey; one of the kids in the other booth we see briefly is played by Gbenga Akinnagbe in his first film role, who rose to greater prominence as Chris Partlow on The Wire.

Yeah, it seems like this is at minimum an "ok" thing. Honestly having a good way to do secrets management with agents seems like a good idea.

I wonder if this stand and if it will lead to more suits against Meta.


I wonder how Zig compares here


Nix + FreeBSD would be interesting


Plus the higher interest rates. As soon as auto loan rates popped, demand started to crater.


For better or for worse they have been very consistent throughout the years that they don't want want to degrade existing performance. It is why the GIL existed for so long


You can run oci containers via podman.


Honestly I think the best path is hybrid with the cloud as DR and sudden load scaling.


Metal with data streamed to cloud and cloud as hot backup is something some people already do.

If the metal dies in a catastrophic way (multiple nodes at once and loss of quorum, catastrophic DC outage, etc.) you spin it up in AWS.


How's Asahi treating you? If I upgrade from my m1max, I was going to try it out


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