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That explosion plot is pretty bad. No y axis. Unclear if it includes tuition and loans (which are paid or owed by students). Loans are ~50% of "ED appropriations", and only ~$21 million was distributed to students in 2021. But in the plot is looks like spending was around 150 billion (hard to say with no y axis) but ~50% was loans? And the source is just a vague Dept of Ed, with a link at the very bottom of the page to every single table published by the Dept of Ed, so have fun checking the source.

I'm not criticizing your take, although I suspect teachers might lose more than their lunch, just pointing out how terrible the plot is.


The plumber obviously. Not everyone needs to know how to be a plumber, but a plumber should know how to be a plumber

Im a software engineer and know how to be a software engineer, yet I find LLMs quite helpful. Why should a plumber be any different.

Because if a plumber moves fast and breaks things, I've got shit all over the place.

That, and also the plumber loses their license. So perhaps the solution is professional licensing for software engineers.

I feel like a licencing process for software engineers would

A) test lots of skills that are common but not universal. I'm thinking javascript trivia here, where I don't write any javascript in my professional capacity as a software engineer; but there are many people who think Software Engineer == Javascript Programmer

B) shine too much of a light on the fact that this industry is full of people who demand high salaries but can't program their way out of a paper bag


I think that's coming regardless. AI just might be the perfect storm to bring the timeline in considerably.

Engineer is a protected title in Canada after all

the question was rhetorical. but, since you responded – do you think that there are limits to who can or should use ai? if the plumber's use of ChatGPT improved outcomes, isn't that preferable?

some knowledge is likely "cached" in the plumber. maybe he doesn't ask the same question twice. i'm sympathetic to the plumber, but i think your concerns of erosion of knowledge or skill are worth pushing on further.


> do you think that there are limits to who can or should use ai?

I don't think there should be imposed limits, but there might be an upper bound where expertise becomes atrophied by depending on AI too much.

> if the plumber's use of ChatGPT improved outcomes, isn't that preferable?

In the short term sure, and maybe even in the long term for the customer. I think the risk to the plumber is losing some of their expertise by outsourcing to AI. But who knows, maybe the plumber has excellent memory and only accumulates knowledge each time they use AI.

Some of the article is lost in the plumber example. I doubt plumbers are spending much time exploring new ways of solving problems, and might even benefit from having a narrower range of outcomes. Other fields that require both expertise and novel solutions will be at a disadvantage if they become more homogenized by depending on AI. Not only is the range of solutions reduced, but getting there is faster, so people end up in a local maxima. Maybe they get stuck there, maybe not, but that's the risk I see.

You don't imagine any long term risks by outsourcing expertise to AI?


I do, but again, it was a rhetorical question; a paradoxical thought experiment.

Which part of being a plumber? Was the house installed with something non-typical? Would you rather have them take an additional 30 minutes looking up their technical manual?

Without further knowledge of what was going on it's hard to say why they used ChatGPT.


> Would you rather have them take an additional 30 minutes looking up their technical manual?

Yes


You know that plumbers charge by the hour, right?

Water damage is generally more expensive than a half hour of a plumber's time

How do you know ChatGPT is referencing the right information if you need to look it up in a manual?

It doesn't need to be cheaper than the cheapest meat to be competitive. If there's some social or moral incentive to avoid real meat, that adds value to plant based alternatives.

Fungi protein sounds cool though. I would totally add that to my diet. But I also think insects are an underutilized protein source, so I might be an outlier


Even when your personal budget would allow spending more for food, a price that is higher than that of meat is a serious red flag, indicating that it is likely that such a substitute for meat has greater environmental consequences than producing meat.

There are 3 reasons for avoiding meat. One is the ethical reason, because during the last century meat production has transitioned everywhere to using methods that can hardly be considered anything else but continuous torture. There are also certain health risks associated with meat and there is also the reason that the real cost of meat may be greater than it appears to be, due to negative environmental consequences (i.e. pollution).

If some kind of protein extract or some kind of fake meat is more expensive than real meat (per protein content), you can be rather certain that the negative environmental consequences are worse than for real meat, because the higher cost is likely to be determined by the consumption of more energy and of various kinds of chemicals during the production of the meat substitute.


Economy of scale and subsidies have a major influence on shelf prices. Is is a red flag to be a small producer and/or not profiting from public money? Some wouldn't cold-ban a product only based on it's price, especially if it's pioneering.

Being "certain that the negative environmental consequences are worse" seems an stretch from weak initial judgement.


Higher cost doesn't always indicate negative environmental consequences. It could be (and seems likely to me) that harvesting one cow's worth of plant protein is more labor intensive which isn't necessarily bad for the environment. If you compare two soy crops, one that uses herbicides and another that uses manual labor to pull weeds, the latter will be more expensive and better for the environment


Shrimp, crayfish and lobster are pretty much insects, adored by many.


Those are at least big enough that you don't have to eat the shells. (Fun aside: Technically, the grouping is closer to the other way around: insects are classed under crustaceans these days.)


Having it be cheaper would make it a real game changer -- if "chicken nuggets" and "burgers" were functionally equivalent (nutrition, appearance, mouthfeel, etc) and cheaper, then we'd start to see serious changes in animal husbandry.

It will never go away but if it becomes more niche then it's likely that what is produced will be done so more humanely (branding and perception of quality)


>there's some social or moral incentive to avoid real meat, that adds value to plant based alternatives.

This is missing the key point that like 95% of people in the world are not vegans, don't find any moral issues with eating meat, and thus produce zero social pressure. Fungi burgers MUST come with an actual benefit for the majority of people. It needs to be seen as some combination of "Tastey", "healthy", "cost effective". If fungi burgers were $2/lbs and tasted pretty close to a beef burger, then people would flock to them. The problem with Impossible burgers were worse, more expensive, questionably "more healthy" and entirely relied upon the moral/social issues which only mattered in a few small slices of society.


> If two people disagree on whether something is funny, who's wrong? You can't say either of them is. There's no reward function for funny.

Laughter is the reward. N of 2 is a small sample size, but if one person laughed you could say it was 50% funny.

> a really good joke is recent, relevant, and shows deep understanding of its subject

These can help, but it ultimately doesn't matter how recent, relevant, or deep a joke is. If no one laughs, it wasn't funny.


Laughter is a decent signal, but it can be noise if the audience is uncomfortable or trying to please. Does the joke teller count as being part of the audience? I imagine if someone is telling the joke...they must think it is funny, so in most cases at least 1 participant thinks its funny. Sometimes jokes are unintended, maybe a faux pas, and it might be inappropriate for someone to laugh...does it make it not a joke, or does it make it not funny if I cannot laugh?

Lots of layers to this, but I guess the old adage "it depends" is very fitting here!


Laughter isn’t a perfect signal, but is the only signal in all the noise you mentioned


It can get quite interesting in group dynamics between people that really know each other, inside jokes, subtle cleverness, etc...

Humor may be the saving grace of humanity!


A lot of modern comedy is awful because it substitutes embarrassed laughter for amused laughter.


Ideally, hold Google liable until their AI doesn’t confabulate medical advice.

Realistically, sign a EULA waiving your rights because their AI confabulates medical advice


Only true if the alien plants are using the same chlorophyll as earth plants, which seems like a colossal fucking assumption to me


Sorry to ruin your ruining, but if you read past the abstract and look at the data, you'll see it tends to correlate with whether a democrat or republican is in office. Immigration policy is also mentioned in the discussion.

> Given these findings, a corollary question is what attracts foreign graduate students to the US and leads them to stay. Prior research points to immigration policy—a subject of perennial public interest—having a large effect on stay rates


> fewer safety guardrails in pretraining and system prompt modification that distort reality.

Really? Isn't Grok's whole schtick that it's Elon's personal altipedia?


My understanding is that grok api is way different than the grok x bot. Which of course does Grok as a business any favors. Personally, I do not engage with either.


you gotta be quite a crazy person to use grok :)


Grok is good for up-to-the-minute information, and for requests that other chat services refuse to entertain, like requests for instructions on how to physically disable the cellular modem in your car.


I sat in my kid's extracurricular a couple months ago and had an FBI agent tell me that Grok was the most trustworthy based on "studies," so that's what she had for her office.


Did she get that info from Grok?


Grok has Elon as better athelete than LeBron so I would agree with FBI Agent. can’t get that kind of insight anywhere else :)


Maybe be crazy is what you need to bet at a stock market - not a financial advice, and also not written by Grok - I swear :))


@grok is this true?


… checking with my creator …


It's excellent, and it doesn't get into the weird ideological ruts and refusals other bots do.

Grok's search and chat is better than the other platforms, but not $300/month better, ChatGPT seems to be the best no rate limits pro class bot. If Grok 5 is a similar leap in capabilities as 3 to 4, then I might pay the extra $100 a month. The "right wing Elon sycophant" thing is a meme based on hiccups with the public facing twitter bot. The app, api, and web bot are just generally very good, and do a much better job at neutrality and counterfactuals and not refusing over weird moralistic nonsense.


I always wonder how much of HN is just bots debating bots


Social media is becoming less a place to communicate with people and more just a place to navigate the hierarchy of potential conversations.


That's totally something a bot would say to blend in ;-)


I swear I make all my captchas


Yes, down with bots.


Or asking baiting questions just to appear intellectually connected?


nice try clanker


Sounds a lot like X these days.


I didn't find 2 surprising either, but I'm a little surprised you never see it. If you want to treat the args to a function as immutable, what can you do besides copy, modify, and return a new object?


> what can you do besides copy, modify, and return a new object?

You can directly produce a modified copy, rather than using a mutating operation to implement the modifications.

It should be noted that "return a modified copy" algorithms can be much more efficient than "mutate the existing data" ones. For example, consider the case of removing multiple elements from a list, specified by a predicate. The version of this code that treats the input as immutable, producing a modified copy, can perform a single pass:

  def without(source, predicate):
      return [e for e in source if not predicate(e)]
whereas mutating code can easily end up with quadratic runtime — and also be difficult to get right:

  def remove_which(source, predicate):
      i = 0
      while i < len(source):
          if predicate(source[i]):
              # Each deletion requires O(n) elements to shift position.
              del source[i]
          else:
              # The index increment must be conditional,
              # since removing an element shifts the next one
              # and that shifted element must also be considered.
              i += 1


swap with last element then truncate at the end


Yes, you can do this if you don't care about order, and avoid the performance degradation. But it's even more complex.

Or if you do care about order, you can emulate the C++ "erase-remove" idiom, by keeping track of separate "read" and "write" positions in the source, iterating until "read" reaches the end, and only incrementing "write" for elements that are kept; and then doing a single `del` of a slice at the end. But this, too, is complex to write, and very much the sort of thing one chooses Python in order to avoid. And you do all that work, in essence, just to emulate what the list comprehension does but in-place.


You can do the in place variant using generator comprehension and writing the result in place in the original vector. The generator should run ahead of the write and should work fine.

It will also probably be significantly slower than just copying the vector.


I think copying and modifying is normal! I just almost never see it with `copy()`. Apologies if I didn't say that clearly.


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