For the best experience on desktop, install the Chrome extension to track your reading on news.ycombinator.com
Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | history | masondixon's commentsregister

Yeh, US is pretty intense for social justice. I'd love to see a timeline and some kind of justification as to why it became such a strong force. I remember not even knowing what "social justice" mean't.

Like all the people's time and energy invested in social justice today...what would these same people have been investing their energy in before 2010s?

What I see is that people love being outraged, purpose-driven, and procrastination. And with social justice, while you're procrastinating, you can be outraged, and you can join a movement and gain a purpose.

Social media is probably to blame.


> Lowering your hiring standards for women can give people like me the lingering self doubt that maybe I wasn’t good enough. Worse, it gives many techbros reasons to believe that his female colleagues aren’t as good as his, and act accordingly.

As a male, this has always been my main argument against affirmative action.

Too many SV white-knights feel they are helping simply because they are well intentioned. But good intentions do not always lead to the best outcomes.

And the costs are these "lingering self doubts", and teams being suspicious of "diversity hires".

Self-respect is very hard to quantify, but there is a distinct need for humans to be respected and authentically appreciated, and the extreme advocacy for females is sapping away this motivating force that is essential to work and life.


Personally I feel that its bad idea for the fact that affirmative action is sexist / racist. You end up selecting people based on their skin color / sex rather than their ability.


The bit that leaves out is that this already happens without affirmative action.


Affirmative action is definitely racist and sexist. Without it, maybe it is in some cases.


"If I got hired by a company with a diversity program, I'd wonder if I was as good as engineer as everyone else."

- men who never wonder if they got their positions because they fit the image people have when they think of this industry


Less women studied CS than men and less apply. The image used to be merit. Now its all fucked up.


I've always wondered about this. People never really talk about it, but I see the "cool" factor as pivotal. Smart social people want to be bankers, lawyers, doctors, management consultants, not STEM.

With the internet everyone has had the ability to learn programming for ages, and it really hasn't dramatically changed much. People are just not interested in it at some point.


Very true. Its like bike-shedding.


> These people are americans now.

Wouldn't "our own" as used earlier also include "these people"?

I think you are injecting context which was never there in the first place.


India and China have over 1bn people. Their countries are inferior to he US in so many ways. Of course they want to come here, and if there was no cap on the number, they would drive the wages down to rock bottom.

They will always be cheaper than US labor. And there are other advantages like employer loyalty because they cannot easily change job, which means employers can push them very hard and they won't quit - because its complicated to shift to another employer and they have to restart their green card.

I think behind all this is the feeling that the best opportunities are given to foreigners who then rise up the ranks, opportunities which could have been given to Americans.

Regarding immigration in general, the left continuously argues to keep low-paid foreign workers here to the benefit of large corporates. The justifications of "all of Silicon Valley companies support foreign immigration" makes perfect sense for these companies, but not for the nation. Silicon Valley is a bubble.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


That was before all the land was settled. And most likely meant for Europeans.


What matter does it make if it was originally meant at Europeans rather than Indians? People also used to consider Catholics (Irish, Italians, Polish) as not white.

The US is still very sparsly populated, especially for a country with so much arable land & relatively mild climate.

Ever been to the Netherlands or Belgium? They are quite lovely. Both also have a population density well in excess of 10x the US's.

Lots more people can fit in the country without negative effects.


I hear this about the US all the time - open the gates, plenty of land left.

But the areas that have seen job growth in the last 20 years are highly concentrated in areas that are about as packed as most of Western Europe: LA, SF, Boston through DC, and about a dozen other massive metro areas. The vast majority of available land (from the Mississippi to the Pacific and Alaska) is uninhabitable or agricultural and without jobs.

All I know is that where I live we already have way too much traffic, lack of affordable housing, and the lowest labor participation rate in decades. So by what metric does increasing population help those of us who live here (besides companies who love cheaper labor)?


So by the same measure do you also support legislation to disallow rural Americans from moving to the cities? How about those from sparser cities into denser ones?

    So by what metric does increasing population 
    help those of us who live here
Not everything is about helping you. Why do people in HN complain about zoning/density restrictions in SFBA? Keeping real estate restricted/expensive is beneficial to people who already own a house there!

   areas that are about as packed as most of 
   Western Europe: LA, SF, Boston through DC,
   and about a dozen other massive metro areas.
http://www.newgeography.com/content/002808-world-urban-areas... - only 2 of the top 20 metros are in the US and they have the lowest density (table 1). Also from that page: "the least dense urban areas with more than 2.5 million population are all in the United States."

The US is sparse in any meaningful metric.


Shouldn't we help the ones already here first?


Should we solve all problems on earth before attempting a mission to mars? And this is ignoring the fact that allowing immigration is not some purely benevolent sacrifice for helping others, countries generally benefit from immigration as a whole.


That was before there were billions of Africans, Indians, and Indonesians a few hours travel from the United States. Times change.

Also this part is important: "yearning to breathe free" is quite different from "yearning to establish a global Caliphate".


Yearning to establish a caliphate is a boogeyman. The vast majority of immigrants to the US are not Muslim and the vast majority of Muslim immigrants are not schemeing to establish a caliphate.


The "scheming" comment is a classic false dichotomy.

There's a big spectrum of behavior towards a political outcome between "opposed with deadly force" and "supportive with deadly force". Most Germans in 1940 wouldn't personally gun down Jews, nor even directly participate in organizing such a thing. But nor did they didn't oppose it with force, or energetically ensure it didn't happen.

Of course most Muslims aren't "scheming" to establish a caliphate, but they wouldn't oppose it the way you or I would.

This is an obvious reality that people just don't like to acknowledge.


I live in the 2nd-most Turkish neighborhood of the most Turkish city outside of Turkey (Tempelhof, in Berlin), I think I may have more personal first-hand experience with muslim immigrants than you do.

They are for the vast, overwhelming majorly part, just normal people not unlike natives of the same social class. yes, if you compare the "typical" working class muslim to professional yuppies they come across a lot more conservative but not more so than the local-western working class.

And the muslim professional class (the doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc among them) are similarly not very different in this aspect from the local-western professional yuppies.

I think the discrepancy in perspective is that most yuppies don't otherwise notice the native working class.


I think this is called hustle, is it not?

Is this not proof the media is losing touch with reality...


This is generally called corruption, when a politician uses their political influence to give favors and influence to family and friends.

This kind of corruption is not necessarily illegal if you do it right, but it's looked down upon because it means you're using the office for personal gain rather than the gain of your constituents.


I think I'd call it cronyism or nepotism.

If his company isn't qualified or they are getting overpaid then I'd call it corruption.

It stinks either way.


What gives you the impression they aren't qualified? According to their marketing material at least, they specialize in making governments more effective and accountable. I'm actually glad that those concepts would be welcomed in the Trump Whitehouse.


> I think I'd call it cronyism or nepotism.

I'd call those specific forms of corruption.

It's possible to hire friends/family without it being cronyism/nepotism, if they're as qualified (or more) than other job applicants.


Hustling is not that hard if your father-in-law is the president and your wife is a government official. Sounds more like blatant nepotism.


It's called hustle if you are not the son-in-law of the boss. Sorry that's rude, I guess this guy is just a brilliant genius, born lucky.


Next you will tell me SV is a meritocracy...


Nepotism is the opposite of hustle.


A hustle is lying about your abilities to trick weaker opponents into taking bad bets. Nepotism is getting a job because you are related to somone in an organization. So, I wouldn't call them opposites of each other...


But if you are given something because of nepotism, it means you didn't hustle for it.


> objectively wrong

Where can I find a list of "objectively wrong" things, and is there some kind of formal process to challenge them?


Let's make one:

1. Sexual advances towards people you hold power over.

So far so good.


And if someone you are interested in sleeping with does it to you (whilst holding power over you) - you are going to complain about that?


If its your sister, if the police flirt with her, she will probably have an easier time in jail, maybe able to get preferential treatment. Good if you are the guilty criminal. So A.

If she is a suspect, then she would feel pressured to go along with the police's advances, because of the risk of retaliation for knocking back advances. So, B.

But for the victim of your sister's crime, she will want justice to be served, and will definitely go for B.


You know a large percentage of long-term relationships start in an office setting.


Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search:

HN For You