There's a wonderful story about William Penn (yes, the William Penn who founded Pennsylvania and after whom it was named) nearly getting into trouble for his Quaker beliefs, except that King Charles II graciously forgave him. The story made it into a biography of Charles's mistress Eleanor "Nell" Gwyn, and can be read here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Nell_Gwyn/Chapte...
Briefly, William Penn refused to take his hat off in the presence of King Charles, due to his Quaker beliefs in egalitarianism. This would have gotten him into very serious trouble for lèse-majesté, except that the king took his own hat off. "Friend Charles," said Penn (who had apparently never heard of the saying that when you're in a hole you should stop digging), "why dost thou not keep on thy hat?" And King Charles II replied, "'Tis the custom of this place that only one person should be covered at a time." Of course, normally it was the king who would keep his crown on. But after Charles said that, nobody in the court could bring a charge of lèse-majesté against William Penn for the incident.
For anyone not wanting to read through it all, the story in the conclusion of the chapter was a particularly good laugh:
> I have referred in a former chapter to the King's partiality for his dogs; one species of which is still celebrated among the fancy as King Charles's breed. On the occasion of an entry into Salisbury, an honest Cavalier pressed forward to see him, and came so near the coach that his Majesty cautioned the poor man not to cling too close to the door lest one of the little black spaniels in the coach should chance to bite him. The loyalist still persisting in being near, a spaniel seized him by the finger, and the sufferer cried with a loud voice, "God bless your Majesty, but G—d d—n your dogs!"
Joe Macken (the truck driver who built the model) and Ferdinand Cheval (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Cheval) were never alive at the same time. But if they had ever met, they would have found each other to be kindred spirits.
> Because to accomplish anything at scale you need organization. And organizing humans in anything other than forced labor involves respecting them, thus things like codes of conduct.
This part of your comment was worthwhile. You should have stopped there, before starting to grind an unrelated political axe. Let's at least try to follow the "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity." guideline, eh?
> But I know people who are snuggly proud about not reading the manual and I really don't get it.
Agreed... but there seem to be more and more products that either don't have manuals, or whose manuals are so badly written that reading them turns out to be a waste of time. I feel like people are being trained not to read manuals anymore, so I understand the people whose first instinct is "that thing is going to be useless, I'm not going to waste my time reading it". But not the ones who are proud of not reading manuals, that doesn't make sense to me either.
While I agree in the general case (e.g., software aimed at end users), there's also a good reason why the Archlinux Wiki is so good: because installing an OS does require a manual if you want to be able to do any customization at all (yes, you can just install the defaults, but if that's what you wanted, you probably wouldn't be running Arch). And the same applies to systems software not quite as broad in scope as an OS: there can be multiple different customizations you might need to apply, or you might need various dependencies. atoav didn't mention whether the software the sysadmin was installing had a distro package (it might not have even been on a Linux system, no particular reason to assume it was Linux rather than FreeBSD or AIX or Solaris or...), but I kind of assume it didn't, precisely because there were installation instructions. The sysadmin wouldn't have been "swear[ing] his way through an installation process" if the installation process was "sudo apt install some-piece-of-software", after all.
I mean, there clearly was an uninstall script. It was in the app's Contents/Resources file, and it was called CleanupMagician_Admin_Mac.sh. Which means there was some intended way to trigger running it. Perhaps Samsung's instructions or their menu system weren't clear and they managed to hide it from him. But there most definitely was an uninstall script, and if he had managed to find the intended button in the interface, it would have asked for admin permissions and then done all the cleanup for him. The very cleanup that he complained about having to do by hand.
I think you are probably right. Although, with a name like that it could be some post-install cleanup of temporary files (which would explain why it was doing chown, rather than rm, although there are certainly other options!).
I wondered about the chown thing myself, but ended up concluding that the author was misremembering the errors. He probably saw some chown messages and didn't read all the hundreds of lines (I certainly don't read every line of hundreds of log lines, I skim looking for key words), meaning many of them could well have been rm failures that he misremembered as chown. But whatever it was doing, the author would have been wise to read it before deleting the directory it contained, as it would have saved him a lot of trouble finding all the bits and pieces he had to hunt down later.
The author is an unreliable narrator. The very first thing, the location of the script, can’t possibly be true (the app itself won’t be in per-user support data directory). They conflate things, they definitely don’t know enough about macOS to know to use sudo. I mean, they even rant about bog standard localization files…
Sadly, there are apps out there whose installers drop helper apps in ~/Library/Application Support. Or worse: Eve Online actually puts the whole game there. The Eve.app in /Applications (or wherever you choose to put it) is just the launcher/downloader.
It's a .sh script, so he could have read it before running it. And when he saw "chown: Operation not permitted", he could have realized that the word Admin in the script was a clue that it needed, well, admin-level privileges, and he should try running it with sudo (after reading it first, naturally). I'm with you, I feel like this is someone who caused himself a lot of self-inflicted pain.
I mean, if he had read the script before deleting it (that's the third time I've mentioned reading the script, do you think I'm dropping enough hints?), he might have found a handy list of ... ALL THE FILES HE WAS LOOKING FOR. You know, all the 18 or so locations that he had to find by hand.
But nope, he didn't ... yes, I'm going to say it for the fourth time ... READ THE SCRIPT.
And what about for users that either can’t find this uninstall script or wouldn’t know how to read it or what the contents mean? While I think you do have a point, we also can’t assume that the uninstall script really would’ve removed all traces.
The fact that it reported "hundreds" (if the author is right about that, he might be misremembering) of permissions-related errors tells me that it was trying to clean up hundreds of files. Sure, not knowing what's in the script, I can't say for certain that it wouldn't have missed something... but it sounds like it was trying to be thorough. And it was written by the people in position to know what needed to be cleaned up, so I actually have no reason to assume that it wouldn't have removed all traces.
Those users have never heard of the word `uninstall` nor have any comprehension of what it would do. They will after a time, just buy a new computer because the old one is full up.
If the author had also included a note explaining that he'd *reviewed* what the AI produced and checked it for correctness, I would be willing to trust the list. As it is, how do I know the `netstat` invocation is correct, and not an AI hallucination? I'll have to check it myself, obviating most of the usefulness of the list. The only reason such a list is useful is if you can trust it without checking.
Sure, humans make mistakes... but rarely, vanishingly rarely about commands they use often. Are you going to make a non-typo kind of mistake when typing `ls -l`? AI hallucinations don't happen all the time, but they happen so much more often than "vanishingly rarely".
That's why you can't just vibe-code something and expect it to work 100% correctly with no design flaws, you need to check the AI's output and correct its mistakes. Just yesterday I corrected a Claude-generated PR that my colleague had started, but hadn't had time to finish checking before he went on vacation. He'd caught most of its mistakes, but there was one unit test that showed that Claude had completely misunderstood how a couple of our services are intended to work together. The kind of mistake a human would never have made: a novice wouldn't have understood those services enough to use them in the first place, and an expert would have understood them and how they are supposed to work together.
You always, always, have to double-check the output of LLMs. Their error rate is quite low, thankfully, but on work of any significant size their error rate is pretty much never zero. So if you don't double-check them then you're likely to end up introducing more bugs than you're fixing in any given week, leading to a codebase whose quality is slowly getting worse.
"My argument here is going to be that this paper is just measuring the fact that buildings are hotter than grass. The land around the data center that isn’t either buildings or road has probably not warmed. It doesn’t matter at all that this study is about data centers. I’d expect similar measurements for Wal Marts. If you build a building, whether it’s a data center or Wal Mart or house or Starbucks, and you point a NASA satellite at the building, you are going to measure a warmer surface temperature exclusively caused by the material the building made of, not any heat exhaust from what’s happening inside the building."
He goes on to get into the math of his claim. It's possible, of course, that his math could be wrong, in which case his refutation would be incorrect. But he very specifically refutes the claim you said he doesn't refute.
Briefly, William Penn refused to take his hat off in the presence of King Charles, due to his Quaker beliefs in egalitarianism. This would have gotten him into very serious trouble for lèse-majesté, except that the king took his own hat off. "Friend Charles," said Penn (who had apparently never heard of the saying that when you're in a hole you should stop digging), "why dost thou not keep on thy hat?" And King Charles II replied, "'Tis the custom of this place that only one person should be covered at a time." Of course, normally it was the king who would keep his crown on. But after Charles said that, nobody in the court could bring a charge of lèse-majesté against William Penn for the incident.
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