did you see the author provide any evidence? the author say something you'd like to hear then you instinctively think it's logic. if you have known how ridiculous it is to compare hutong with indian slum by the author, you will know nearly all of what he said is bullshit. (see on my explaination on another reply to him)
Looking at his comment, I believe he relied on his experience living in both India and Beijing to make his statement. He also did not say that Beijing hutongs were the same as Indian slums. He said "to a lesser extent" and "slum-like". He also said he wasn't trying to be judgmental. He also qualified his statements by saying that it was a while ago, so his information may be out of date.
Having lived in Beijing myself in 2014, most hutongs are not comparable to Indian slums; some might be. But there are definitely problematic housing situations for migrant workers, even now. Many live in dangerous conditions, if not slum-like conditions, though some would consider these to be slums (certainly, many would agree that these properties are run by slumlords). At this point, we are quibbling about the meanings of words, when we should really be focused on whether people can live healthy, safe, and productive lives on their current salaries.
the author say something you'd like to hear then you instinctively think it's logic. Given that this is a complaint I have about many people, it is an interesting feeling to have someone else have this complaint about me.
As one grew up in Beijing and lived for 26 years, I can definitely say that comparing Hutong to Indian slum is really really ignorant. You can ask anyone in Beijing, they will tell you that many people live in Hutong is one group of the richest people in Beijing. Nearly all people live in Hutong are Beijing natives, and their houses inside the hutong are called "siheyuan" which are among the most expensive real estate in beijing. Most "siheyuan", houses inside the hutong, are build decades ago and owned by local natives for long time, and its value increases much fast than other real estates as nearly all located in the center of beijing. I just check on an agency site, the cheapest house are more than 5 million us dollar, and many are more than 10 million us dollar. only the most successful people in Beijing will buy those houses. (if you know Chinese, you can check on this site or by google translate: http://esf.fang.com/house/i34-kw%cb%c4%ba%cf%d4%ba/)
if you have ever been to, you can have a visit and talk to people in hutong, you will know how wealthy and happy like they are.
and there are also many other statements in you text are totally wrong and with groundless prejudice. No employer will threat to report to police because of work’s identity, you may again ridiculously think beijing as America. Beijing is china’s capital, more than third people there are not locals, they also don’t need any documents to go to and stay in their capital.
And nowadays, most rich people in beijing are not locals, they come from all over the china.
Also from the article: "while life in the hutongs might sound exciting to some hipsters in town, most of the residents are facing living conditions which resemble those of slums in less developed countries."
There are definitely some VERY nice areas with Hutongs (near the Forbidden City!), but I've (accidentally inside the second ring) seen some which appeared very run down (leaky roofs, open sewers, kids not in school). I actually see your point that real estate pricing is so high (and the subway is getting so much better) that it's strange for there to be such slums. My best bet is that the government can't tear them down due to historical local pressure, but nobody except rural immigrants (who can't afford to fix them, or send their kids to school) live out a bleak existence in them (still making more than their family does back home). Even college students live in basements that are pretty horrifying. My guess is that the land value appreciation doesn't go to them.
I remember only 20 years ago and all of Beijing seemed to be Hutong... with the ubiquitous locked gates that seemed a fire hazard to me. It's no wonder that from being so common some have become much nicer and some much less so, while most have fallen to the wrecking ball.
i understand being upset at being included in a standard that is by any definition upsetting but just because the value increases doesn't mean it's not a slum
fyi there are places in mumbai too w/ astonishing market values and disgusting living conditions
We have bad conditions for sure in San Francisco and poverty elsewhere in the US that all Americans should be ashamed of. Frankly the state of poverty in America is unacceptable. But the poverty we have is nowhere near the scale and absolute horror of Mumbai slums. I've traveled extensively through South America and seen horrific conditions there but nothing was as shocking as Mumbai slums.
I find posts like yours are misguided and demonstrate total ignorance regarding human suffering.
Having traveled extensively as well I agree nothing compares with the slums of Mumbai. But the bad areas in America carry an extra connotation of crime and drug use that poor areas elsewhere may not. I didn’t spend any time in the slums of Mumbai, only observed from afar, but I suspect I’d feel safer walking around them than the bad parts of SF, LA, Baltimore, Detroit, etc ...
$5m is too much for me for a house with no hookup to district heating, running water, dried cow poop as heat insulation, and proper sewage... This is what I don't get about Beijingers or Shanghaites
Did China get rid of the hukou system? Otherwise wouldn't people still need documents to go and stay in their capital?
You should update the wikipedia page if it's been repealed everywhere, the current page just says that small cities have had restrictions abolished but large cities are still under tight control.
Most foreign people tend to overestimate the impact of hukou on normal daily life. You don't need it for anything, except things like getting your kids into free public school. You can totally go to another city, find a job, rent a room and work, save money, get a mortgage, buy an apartment, marry, have kids, put them in a paid public school and generally live your life.
Are you still at risk from it? If a policeman (or powerful person able to tell the police what to do) decided he was sick of you, could he simply run you out of town (back to where you came from)?
Not that I know of. Mostly hukou is used to "limit", not to outright prevent. E.g. in Shanghai and Guangzhou people without a local hukou cannot buy more than one apartment. It's much harder for people without hukou to get Shanghai car plates (that by themselves cost around ¥100k ~ $15,000 these days) that will allow taking numerous elevated roads during peak hours.
Oh interesting, reading the wikipedia page made it seem like a person was a second class citizen similar to being black in South Africa under apartheid; with no right to vote or buy property.
It's surprising and interesting to learn that China has total internal freedom of movement, something that the USSR and similar countries never embraced.
Let them keep their ignorance. I've decided to give up educating them for two reasons:
1) It's impossible for them to realize that China is a much better place than what western media depicts. It's even better than most western countries nowadays.
2) It's for China's benefits to keep them in thinking China still what China was 100 years ago.
Don't wake up them, let them live in their dreams.
I am a chinese and lived in Beijing for more than 25 years, i have the same feeling with you about how ridiculous it is to compare the hutong with Indian slums and many other wrong and tendentious statements. I will explain in another reply to that guy.
