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Misinformation is misinformation. I am certain I am misinformed about many things. The correct response to when I post misinformation is to inform.

What happened recently with the move to yellow journalism is not misinformation but rather censorship. Fact checkers end up labelling things in order to censor them.

The interesting thing on my mind in regards to Canada. Trudeau has changed. He would take on people head on at town halls and challenging questions: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/trudeau-takes-questions-about-...

Today he refuses to even consider talking to these ongoing protests and is going to insane extremes to shut these peaceful protests down. The only way to look at it from his point of view. He must see these people as national security threats. He genuinely believes they are racists and white supremacists. He genuinely believes they are there to overthrow the government.

Which there's no justification for other than egregiously being misinformed.


I hadn't thought about it that way, but it certainly would explain his actions. You don't compromise with nazis. If you're convinced that's what they are.

This would explain a lot about Trump too. He was in a misinformation bubble as well.

Which means even world leaders aren't immune to this tribal trap.


I don't think that Trump was in a misinformation bubble. Trump was in the bubble of his own narcissistic ego. Things were "true" or "false" based on how they made Trump look. Anything that threw any kind of a negative light on him was "false".

The same was true of people. People were either "the greatest" or "losers" depending on whether the last thing they said made Trump look good or not.

Trump was creating a lot of misinformation, but it wasn't because he was misinformed (at least not primarily). It was because he cared more for his image (and, I suspect, his own image of himself) rather than reality. Facts didn't matter, only image did.


>I hadn't thought about it that way, but it certainly would explain his actions. You don't compromise with nazis after all.

The question though, are these protests really what he has called them? Are they really a military occupation?

>This would explain a lot about Trump too. He was in a misinformation bubble as well.

100% true. You will find even republican ideologues have called him out on many of his bullshit things. Hell his rhetoric was toxic. Tons of improvement could happen over Trump.

>Which means even world leaders aren't immune to this tribal trap.

It's built into our psychology, but not something out of control. Harper was in power for 9 years and never called in the military. He never demonized his political opponents. He never falsely labelled a peaceful protest as a military occupation. He never smeared political opponents as 'racists and white nationalists with unacceptable views'. He never declared a state of emergency to crush dissent.

Trudeau doesn't need the military. He gave himself to power to seize your bank account because you're a protester. No court orders. No due process.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said at Monday's news conference that banks would be able freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests without any need for a court order.


> The question though, are these protests really what he has called them? Are they really a military occupation?

Definitely not. Every large scale protest has its provocateurs and outliers. Using the outliers to frame the 99% is dishonest to say the least.

To any neutral observer they are overwhelmingly peaceful and represent the working class.


>To any neutral observer they are overwhelmingly peaceful and represent normal working class people.

This isn't a neutral observation. "overwhelmingly peaceful and represent normal working class people" exposes a politically-motivated bias.


Does it?

To a neutral observer the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful and represent the administrative class.

To a neutral observer the trucker protests were overwhelmingly peaceful and represent the working class.


Setting aside that no one would attempt to use the term "overwhelmingly peaceful" in a politically neutral matter nowadays unless they were completely naive (it would be like saying "think of the children" in the context of actually arguing for considering childrens' welfare) the word you omitted from the last sentence ("normal") is where the bias comes into play. "Normal" in that case carries the implication that working class people as a whole agree (or should agree) with the protestors, or that anyone who disagrees with them isn't legitimately a member of the working class.

More accurately, the protests (both of the truckers and BLM) represent more narrowly defined set of political prinicples than the beliefs of more general classes, which tend not to be as homogeneous in their views as is often portrayed.


>On one hand, if the protests really were peaceful, I do not believe the government should shut them down.

Our charter right is peaceful assembly. If the protests were not peaceful, the police would be right to shut them down. The reason the Ottawa police cannot do anything for weeks is because they are peaceful.

>On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act.

That would be an incorrect characterization. The bridge blockade did not touch the tunnel. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2022/02/12/Detroit-...

Furthermore, a blockade that isn't violent... isn't violence.

>If some non-citizen entity shut down millions in trade, I don’t think it would be viewed as peaceful.

Yes Trudeau has alleged that these blockades/occupations/sieges are in fact the US government. Even using the name occupation is a international definition. Military occupations would certainly justify the measures being taken by the Canadian governments.

I even agree, if the USA has a military occupation over Canada. Trudeau is right to do what he has done.

That's not what is happening. Trudeau is looking to squash peaceful political protests and the propaganda of calling the protesters racists and white supremacists is insane.

>Should the right to peaceful protest include the right to halt trade at this scale? Are the reports of halted trade overblown?

If the protests 'are at this scale' absolutely. Though yes, clearly the detroit tunnel was open. They even had 1 lane open for the bridge. It's completely overblown.

The correct action for the governments to do when protesters are blockading isn't to send in the guns and tear them down. It's to open conversation with the peaceful protesters. Liberal MP Joel Lightbound is a smart man. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-mp-politicization-p...

the protesters just need a roadmap to no restrictions and human rights being returned.

Trudeau has taken this action because there is no roadmap. He wishes to keep the totalitarian state.


>Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada.

Canadian here. Americans are concerned about Canadian democracy falling. 43 out of 50 states have no mandates; the remaining 7 are clear political lines. Many other countries in the world never had restrictions. Many who did have also dropped them. It's unreasonable for a high vaccinated country to remain so restricted. The smearing of these protests has been extreme to the point that the world is commenting how bad it is in Canada.

>While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gone.

It's absolutely not warranted but also completely invalid. You cant use the act to shutdown peaceful protests. Several premiers who should have been consulted as per requirements of the act are publicly opposing this.

>I can only imagine the chaos that would unfold if this was happening in Washington, D.C., but it's not. I know some outraged Canadians who support the protests/blockades, but most of them are either extreme right wing (a comically small population compared to USA) or heavily biased through being directly impacted by restrictions (like the travel industry).

That's quite the characterization. Absolutely not accurate compared to my understanding.

>The vast majority of my friends, family, colleagues, strangers on the street, business owners I interact with, lawyers, CEOs, investors, healthcare workers, waiters, bartenders, bus drivers, teachers... are all in strong support of putting an end to the disruption, and in favour of vaccine passports, mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. to protect public health.

Of your friends.

https://twitter.com/AngusReid/status/1488044322192695297

In reality polls show somewhere between 50% and 75% of Canadians support the protests and think restrictions must end. you know... like the rest of the world is doing.

>Compared to the USA, Canadians care much more about what's best for the collective whole than about personal freedoms. This is simply a case of a small minority causing problems for the majority, amplified by the fact that the USA leans towards supporting the protestors.

You seem to be living in a political bubble. Out of curiosity, do you believe Trudeau when he says the protesters are 'fringe minority of racists, sexists, and white supremacists?'


Your same pollster:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AngusReid/status/1493113691704725...

> 22% of respondents think the protesters should continue

Sure doesn't seem like 50-75%?

Of CPC voters, they're split on support of protests.

If you think a peaceful protest involves blocking access to ambulances and hospitals, defacing statues with swastikas, and honking very loud horns non-stop for weeks, then I don't think it's possible to have an amicable conversation.


>Of CPC voters, they're split on support of protests.

Erin otoole fell spectacularly. Peter mckay not only supports violence against the blockade, he applauds what Trudeau did last night. Piere Polievre seems to be the only reasonable position. We shall see what happens at their leadership.

>If you think a peaceful protest involves blocking access to ambulances and hospitals,

That hasnt happened here at all. That was something months ago that lasted for all of a day before the protesters willingly left. There have been absolutely no blockades like this at all for this. You are misconstruing different protests.

>defacing statues with swastikas

This absolutely hasnt happened. You seem to be consuming some very poor media.

https://www.newsweek.com/canadian-protesters-face-investigat...

But wait lets evaluate.

https://twitter.com/mackaytaggart/status/1487486909131677698

This is the defacement. Some Canadian flags. The protesters themselves came and cleaned this up after it came out.

Your comment that they have been defaced with swasitkas is wrong. So what about the swastikas? Lets be realistic, it was litrally 1 guy with a nazi flag and journalists coincidentally were able to follow him around to get pictures. Hence the media saying 'swastikas were seen'. In the end we actually discovered the truckers are quite diverse and there's absolutely no nazis amongst them. So frankly, if you're seeing swastikas, that's the counter protesters or journalists.

> and honking very loud horns non-stop for weeks, then I don't think it's possible to have an amicable conversation.

The narrative that these sikh and black truckers are white supremacists has fallen internationally. https://notthebee.com/article/come-and-laugh-with-me-at-the-...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWU8Bi8FqQg

This 'racist' narrative is mocked even by the left-wing. Though I concede that honking horns in downtown capital cities should be banned.


>None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade.

Not even a planck length of surprise to anyone.

>Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual?

What a great question. Staying neutral? Join the protests on some side? At least try to understand what's happening?

>If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails.

I think when folks like Bill Maher call Trudeau out as sounding like Hitler... that was before he declared this last night. Even those on the left are seeing this as way too far. Something the convoy seems to have done is show how detached from reality Trudeau has become. He used to be a guy who would stand up in town halls and talk to anyone.

>f you are on the side of revolt, the official narrative is so increasingly divorced from reality as a means to signal it doesn't have to care about it - because this is how it says it is powerful - that it is impossible to sustain the dissonance to find any common ground or agreement in principle.

The mandates are falling around the world. Trudeau introduced new restrictions in January sparking this protest. It's clearly the wrong direction. The 'covid conspiracy theory' that this isn't about health. There hasnt been an emergency in quite some time. Trudeau's hand got laid down last night. This is no longer a conspiracy theory.

>I just don't see reconciliation as a result of this emergencies act process.

The Ottawa police have been unable to end the protests because they are legal peaceful protests. This emergencies act explicitly says you cant remove their internationally recognized human rights. Trudeau will find out shortly that the protesters are still not going anywhere, but worse force his hand. I will be quite surprised if the military doesnt get involved.

>My bets would be on a ratcheting up of controls over internet services, hyper aggressive financial services and tax enforcement, over the top surveillance exampples as threats, a miasma of staged and real "random" violence, escalating hit jobs and cancellations of the reasonable and principled, an official pivot to "fighting hate/terror" as a permanent emergency, etc.

No crystal ball needed to make these predictions. That's going to happen for sure.

>The only question to me is whether a new class of plausible leaders emerges to replace the terrible ones responsible for this nonsense, or decades of low level conflict with a radicalized populace vs. a state that has more international support than national legitimacy. The only out is removing internal passport controls and mandates. The alterative is clear. Such interesting times.

I have such respect for Liberal MP Joel Lightbound. A week ago he came out and said exactly this. Talk to the protesters, give them a reasonable roadmap to no restrictions. Stop the inflammatory attacks.

Nobody is saying you must drop the mandates tomorrow. But the reason Trudeau has gone this far is because there is no roadmap to no restrictions. Restrictions are staying. The protesters forced hishand and revealed this reality.


I don't think your assessment reflects the current attitudes in Canada. With such a polarizing topic, it's easy to fall into a bubble. I think this is true (and fairly normal) for any political in-group--we tend to overestimate our public support.

In this case, though, it's really just not there.

> Even those on the left are seeing this as way too far.

Generally, people are [sympathetic](https://globalnews.ca/news/8610727/ipsos-poll-trucker-convoy...) to the occupiers, but I wouldn't read too much into that--I'm in the large minority that have "sympathy" for them, but I want them gone as soon as possible.

Canadians say their opinion is unchanged, or that they're more likely to support vaccine mandates because of the occupations and blockades. A small majority want mass arrests and criminal charges, and significant majority want it to be ended by force. [source](https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine...).

Indeed, rather than this being "way too far," for most Canadians, it's not far enough.

> The Ottawa police have been unable to end the protests because they are legal peaceful protests.

The occupation is in violation of several court injunctions, which makes it illegal. As for peaceful? I'd disagree--there's been too many incidents of violence for me to characterize it that way, but frankly that's secondary when you're in systematic violation of court orders (without even considering all of the civil violations like parking, noise, public defecation, etc.)

> the reason Trudeau has gone this far is because there is no roadmap to no restrictions. Restrictions are staying. The protesters forced hishand and revealed this reality.

Every single province had a pre-existing deconfinement plan. They've been accelerated as the hospital situation continues to improve.


>I don't think your assessment reflects the current attitudes in Canada. With such a polarizing topic, it's easy to fall into a bubble. I think this is true (and fairly normal) for any political in-group--we tend to overestimate our public support.

I love reading /r/ontario and /r/canada. Obviously cant comment like I do here without getting banned from those subreddits. So their bubble literally sees the truckers as a military occupation that needs to military to violently remove them. That's certainly not a misrepresentation of the general consensus there.

The threads about people killing and driving into protestors got applauds.

So certainly very polarized.

>Generally, people are [sympathetic](https://globalnews.ca/news/8610727/ipsos-poll-trucker-convoy...) to the occupiers, but I wouldn't read too much into that--I'm in the large minority that have "sympathy" for them, but I want them gone as soon as possible.

People generally support what they represent. They look at the global trend of everyone dropping restrictions and they want the same. However, how many Canadians believe these protesters are also racists, sexists, and white supremacists? The smearing is going to have an effect.

>Indeed, rather than this being "way too far," for most Canadians, it's not far enough.

Yes, it seems very polar. Trudeau's in the tanks polls wise because the people who believe the smears think this is a military occupation that needs violence to solve.

>The occupation is in violation of several court injunctions, which makes it illegal.

Like what? That's the thing about peaceful assembly charter right. There's virtually no case law. Which means you can't really injunct against it. You can go after them for bylaw violations that dont involve people. You can ticket a car that is parked illegally. An illegally parked car is not something that makes it a military occupation or even for that matter illegal.

>As for peaceful? I'd disagree--there's been too many incidents of violence for me to characterize it that way, but frankly that's secondary when you're in systematic violation of court orders (without even considering all of the civil violations like parking, noise, public defecation, etc.)

That's the problem with fundamental human rights. I have a right to peacefully protest. Someone else showing up and being violent doesn't remove my right. That's what fuels counter protesters to be violent. City bylaws also have absolutely no bering here.

>Every single province had a pre-existing deconfinement plan. They've been accelerated as the hospital situation continues to improve.

Which will certainly appease many of the protesters to go home. Not all will go home. This legislation that Trudeau just engaged is specifically designed not to stop peaceful protesters. This means Trudeau has to pull the trigger on military eventually.


> People generally support what they represent.[...] The smearing is going to have an effect.

It's not smearing to accurately describe them based on their actions and words. We have a free press in Canada and they're right to report on the backgrounds of the organizers. They're holding press conferences demanding the dissolution of the government that we just elected, the organizers (not just participants) have documented white supremacist rants. This isn't popular, and I'm not surprised most Canadians haven't fallen for what some people on the internet are trying to represent them as.

> Like what? That's the thing about peaceful assembly charter right

Repeating "peaceful assembly" over and over again doesn't change the nature of the occupation. Constant 150 decibel noise is damaging to health and well being. Stockpiling illegal arms is not legal. Threats to bodily harm are not peaceful. Attempted arson is not peaceful. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "city bylaws have no [bearing]", we're all subject to the same laws.

Re injunctions:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/protesters-violate-cou...

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/judge-hears-argument...

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/judge-grants-injunction-against-no...

You can disagree, but the courts have decided, and they are the authority on legality.

I think the most interesting point is this:

> I have a right to peacefully protest. Someone else showing up and being violent doesn't remove my right.

That's absolutely correct. If you're not violating noise limits, not parked illegally, and comply with the same laws as everyone else, you can ABSOLUTELY continue demonstrating. The Emergencies Act doesn't change that.


>That's absolutely correct. If you're not violating noise limits, not parked illegally, and comply with the same laws as everyone else, you can ABSOLUTELY continue demonstrating. The Emergencies Act doesn't change that.

We seem to consume different news sources. It's remarkable to read responses today. Shock from the far-left to the far-right. This isn't political anymore. Here's a Libertarian socialist antifascist with 190k followers on twitter: https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1493511896351211520

As you are aware, the emergencies act doesn't allow the government to really do anything different than what has already happened to this peaceful protest. It doesn't allow them to remove any charter rights.

What's about to happen will infringe the rights of the protesters. Under the act...

Compensation

48 (1) Subject to subsection (2) and the regulations made under section 49, the Minister shall award reasonable compensation to any person who suffers loss, injury or damage as a result of any thing done, or purported to be done, under any of Parts I to IV or any proclamation, order or regulation issued or made thereunder.

When Trudeau finally orders the protest to end and infringes their rights. The Crown will be paying significant compensation to the protesters.


I'm not sure what more proof I can provide that the blockades and occupation are both an unpopular and illegal.

These responses are non-sequitors and proclaim with confidence what will happen in the future (as though we have a crystal ball). This seems like a good time to stop engaging.


>I'm not sure what more proof I can provide that the blockades and occupation are both an unpopular and illegal.

Well you jumped into this conversation providing a link saying people are sympathetic to the freedom convoy but 'not to read into it'. I believe I have been fair in my discussion.

Popularity is fairly irrelevant. It was extremely popular to imprison japanese canadians during world war 2. The point of your right to peaceful protest is to ensure your grievances are heard. If the government wishes to ignore the protest and not respond, that's fine, you can keep on protesting. This convoy has been tremendously successful in their protest thus far. Their grievances are being heard.

As for the legality of the military occupation. I don't believe you have provided sufficient argument to justify qualifying it as a military occupation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupation If you would like to justify this I am willing to listen. I would agree that a military occupation would be illegal.

Trying to suggest that some municipal bylaws make it 'illegal' is certainly not something even in the realm of being able to remove your charter right to peaceful assembly.

>These responses are non-sequitors and proclaim with confidence what will happen in the future (as though we have a crystal ball).

Lets be realistic here. My predictions are hardly crystal ball worthy. The more practical response to this declaration by Trudeau. This act or equivalent was deployed during the world wars. Which is appropriate. Trudeau's father deployed it during the october crisis but there was bombs and death occurring. There's reasonableness that can be debated with Pierre Trudeau's use. This misuse by Trudeau is what got them to remove that legislation and replace it enshrining the requirement to maintain human rights.

>This seems like a good time to stop engaging.

Here's the thing. Bill Maher got to associating Trudeau with Hitler and what Hitler did. There's an awful lot of those predictions today from the left and right wings. I haven't gone there. I have been trying to be reasonable.

If you think I am wrong with my predictions, I bet you think those predictions are even more wrong? Frankly, if my predictions are wrong, I'm headed that direction comparing Trudeau to Hitler.


This legislation has never been invoked before. It's very difficult to invoke. Virtually any other law must be used first. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/page-1.html

>AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency;

The right to peacefully protest still stands even with the invocation of this act. The Ottawa police have been incapable of ending this protest because it has been peaceful. Nobody has even raided/trespassed in the capital buildings like the January 6th 'insurrection' in the usa. If the protesters were anything but peaceful, the Ottawa police would easily be able to arrest them. Logically concluding that this protest has been peaceful. You can confirm this to be true simply by watching the myriad of livestreams online.

>3 For the purposes of this Act, a national emergency is an urgent and critical situation of a temporary nature that

>(a) seriously endangers the lives, health or safety of Canadians and is of such proportions or nature as to exceed the capacity or authority of a province to deal with it, or

>(b) seriously threatens the ability of the Government of Canada to preserve the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of Canada

>and that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada.

There are an awful lot of 'any other law of Canada' that could be used before this act. Some peaceful protests are not going to justify using this act. In fact not even possible to use this act against peaceful protesters. Trudeau is moving against a foe that isn't described by this protest.

The accusation or allegation by Trudeau is that the USA has a military occupation over Canada. The funding is being organized in the USA.

This to me doesn't ring true. If the USA wanted Canada, a squadron of F22 could annihilate our armed forces in a day. B2 bombers could lay waste to everything else. Canada could do nothing, none of our allies would come to save us. Our allies could never protect us against the USA. Nuclear bombs wouldn't be needed. Plus, we have an extensive and fantastic alliance with the USA. Why would Biden who is worried about Russia, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan invade Canada? It makes no sense.

The alternative is that Trudeau has deployed this against his political opponents who are peacefully protesting.

What do you think?


This has happened; this legislation has never been invoked before. It's very difficult to invoke. Virtually any other law must be used first.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/page-1.html

>AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency;

The right to peacefully protest still stands even with the invocation of this act. The Ottawa police have been incapable of ending this protest because it has been peaceful. Nobody has even raided/trespassed in the capital buildings like the January 6th 'insurrection' in the usa. If the protesters were anything but peaceful, the Ottawa police would easily be able to arrest them. Logically concluding that this protest has been peaceful. You can confirm this to be true simply by watching the myriad of livestreams online.

>3 For the purposes of this Act, a national emergency is an urgent and critical situation of a temporary nature that

>(a) seriously endangers the lives, health or safety of Canadians and is of such proportions or nature as to exceed the capacity or authority of a province to deal with it, or

>(b) seriously threatens the ability of the Government of Canada to preserve the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of Canada

>and that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada.

There are an awful lot of 'any other law of Canada' that could be used before this act. Some peaceful protests are not going to justify using this act. In fact not even possible to use this act against peaceful protesters. Trudeau is moving against a foe that isn't described by this protest.

The accusation or allegation by Trudeau is that the USA has a military occupation over Canada. The funding is being organized in the USA.

This to me doesn't ring true. If the USA wanted Canada, a squadron of F22 could annihilate our armed forces in a day. B2 bombers could lay waste to everything else. Canada could do nothing, none of our allies would come to save us. Our allies could never protect us against the USA. Nuclear bombs wouldn't be needed. Plus, we have an extensive and fantastic alliance with the USA. Why would Biden who is worried about Russia, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan invade Canada? It makes no sense.

The alternative is that Trudeau has deployed this against his political opponents who are peacefully protesting.

What do you think?


Micromanagement is a negative and is unhealthy. If you are being micromanaged, that's grounds for finding a new job instantly. Absolutely nothing to do with what industry you work in.

Performance reviews is another bag. That is bag of issues. My last job, I got my first performance review. I was expecting a good raise. I was a leader of the team, people would come to me constantly looking for help with their issues. Out of a team of ~30 sysadmins, only 2 people(including me) had any networking skills. I was valueable. I was available afterhours regularly, I billed ~50-60 hour weeks. I worked on multiple teams for clients, I had many clients who wanted me exclusively. When a coworker ended up in a disaster, I was often dispatched to help in the situation. I often gave out kudos to my coworkers and thanked them for the good work they did. Positivity in MSP is so important because everything we deal with is negative. Something broke, someone ran a virus, etc.

Went into my performance review. I got very poorly rated justifying no raise. So I went into it... why was I so poorly rated?

I had over 40 lates to work. Except that wasn't true. I was often one of the first people into the building in the morning. So what gives?

Oh, every time I worked a weekend and clocked in at say 10am to respond to an emergency... I was late to work. I had worked 40+ weekend days. So if I worked a saturday and sunday, I was late twice. When actually properly evaluated, I was late once and that was with pre-approval for a doctors appt.

That wasn't all, my boss was under the impression that I had no friends there. That I was out of the office too much to build interpersonal relationships with coworkers. That there was 2 people who at the time were anonymous in that they didn't speak highly of me. Turns out... I was being harassed. I had one of my clients provide me a phone recording of my coworker badmouthing me pretty badly.


You were working too much and you made everybody else look bad. Also, they didn't have budget for a raise so they gave you a poor review. I worked at a company like that. You see, if they give you a raise then the budget must grow. This is the job of the manager. But as he isn't doing his job, budget is not growing. So bad reviews all around. This is when top manager think they are so smart and come up with these rules, and then middle managers bend the rules.


If people are cognizant of when I start work then I'm scrambling for the door. Everyone always thinks I come in at 7am for some reason. I always have this reputation as an early bird. I start ramping up somewhere between 9-10am. I have had co-workers that guilty-ly admit they don't start up until 8:30 and they notify everyone about the munitia of thier schedule like we work in a restaurant or a factory or some shit.

I don't get any of it.


I usually only tell people my working hours so they know not to contact me outside them.

However I absolutely do not tolerate my workplace telling me I am "late"


Did they formally update your performance rating? Did you end up getting the raise you were expecting, or did they give an excuse like "well all the raises have been allocated at this point"? The immediate situation sounds like it sucked enough, but if it had continuing ramifications, I'd be beside myself.


>Did they formally update your performance rating? Did you end up getting the raise you were expecting, or did they give an excuse like "well all the raises have been allocated at this point"? The immediate situation sounds like it sucked enough, but if it had continuing ramifications, I'd be beside myself.

Precisely what happened. Incidentally I reported the harassment and I got fired the day after I reported the harassment.


This seems like a long time ago, but that last sentence is blatantly illegal in my country and I dare say a lot of states.


>This seems like a long time ago, but that last sentence is blatantly illegal in my country and I dare say a lot of states.

About 4 years ago. Here in Ontario, doing this is not considered illegal. Your employer is obligated to investigate harassment claims but not required to do anything at all. Including firing you. I know this because I went to 'office of the worker' whose lawyers told me this.


v_v I'm so sorry to hear that.


Biggest two lessons of job performance I ever learned.

1) Your future hire-ability is determined by the work you do and the results you achieve. If you aren't an A-hole to work with this helps.

2) Your performance rating within a company is based on perception. If you are perceived as doing good work then you get a good rating. There are no objective internal measures of engineer quality in any company.


>> 1) Your future hire-ability is determined by the work you do and the results you achieve. If you aren't an A-hole to work with this helps.

I agree with these but you've got them backwards. I'll help a positive & kind but marginal performer get better or find a role where they can excel; An a-hole is a cancer on the team regardless of how talented.


This is true, and leads to how perception impacts performance reviews internally. If you are nice and get a small handful of wins then you can excel.

When you look externally companies look at the small list of accomplishments and don’t value you as highly.


It's also possible management didn't know what all you did. Or, you were running around like a headless chicken-not aligned with the company goals.


>It's also possible management didn't know what all you did. Or, you were running around like a headless chicken-not aligned with the company goals.

I was an outbound tech at an MSP. I was often not in the office, avoiding much of the drama.

I was hired originally because 3 people quit with no notice on the same friday. Between the time I was hired and fired. Many other people quit and they were very ineffective at hiring.

I was 1 of 2 networking capable techs. I was also constantly out for emergency after emergency. None of which I caused.

I actually live wrote a 4 day week at this place on r/sysadmin back in the day. I took the friday off because it was my birthday. In those 4 days I dealt with over 40 tickets, >25 of which were emergencies. At least half of these clients were clients I never worked on previously. On the friday the company phone was constantly ringing, i didnt pick up and even had an account manager come to my house. Of which he shouldn't know where I lived. Except he sat next to someone who did.

Out of ~30 sysadmins, 25 of which didnt last beyond 6 months. Everyone was fired or quit.


I’m sorry you had to go through that. If somebody came to my home on my day off to try and get me to work I would be livid.


Well, with this description you can cheer - their demise as a company is written on the wall. Especially in the current situation of the worker's market.


It's extremely strange that your boss could be so unaware, and honestly quite a red flag. Did they have 100 reports?


>"Mildly inconvenienced" is an interesting term for shutting down a border crossing that handles $350 million in trade per day.

One lane of the bridge was open and the Detroit tunnel had absolutely no blockade. This is a mild inconvenience. Protests are inconvenient to be sure. If the media you consume portrayed this as if there was no traffic at all between detroit and windsor... time for you to look to new media. I am curious where you have gotten this idea? CBC? Some other 'government accredited media'?

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2022/02/12/Detroit-...

>"Mildly inconvenienced" is an interesting term for residents having to put up with medically unsafe volumes of horn honking all throughout the nights. Some had brought train horns and were blaring those.

Ottawa has a population of 1 million and their downtown area will always have honking. Like you know... every other downtown area of a large capital city. Calling this 'medically unsafe' is quite a stretch. Our homes are quite insulated here in Canada given the cold. The same insulation reduces road noise a lot. If you cant sleep because of road noise downtown... move because that happens year round.

>We're "calling it an insurrection" because that is a stated objective of the organizers, to overthrow the elected government of Canada. The fact that this is being encouraged and funded in large part by Americans is frankly, while unsurprising, an overtly hostile act being done to an ally.

No, that's just not in touch with reality at all. Parking large trucks on roads and having a peaceful protest is not an insurrection. There was absolutely no 'otherthrow the elected government of canada' that's a complete fantasy. They haven't once entered buildings or drawn weapons against anyone or anything.

I highly recommend you consume different media because you are not even in the ballpark here.


Since you donated money to them, you probably would like to know that the manifesto of the organizers who setup the GoFundMe and started the convoy explicitly wanted the Governor General and Senate to meet with the organizers and form a committee to replace the federal government. [1] They only recently stepped back from the manifesto a few days ago. [2]

1. https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/audio/podcasts/the-... 2. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/protest-organizer-no-...


>Since you donated money to them, you probably would like to know that the manifesto of the organizers who setup the GoFundMe and started the convoy explicitly wanted the Governor General and Senate to meet with the organizers and form a committee to replace the federal government. [1] They only recently stepped back from the manifesto a few days ago. [2]

I never donated to them for the record. I wouldn't even join some solidarity thing.

The first link doesnt load any audio for some reason. So i dunno there.

The second link being from a 'government accredited media' org basically just says this MOU was withdrawn. Never provides a sentence of the MOU of what it says. Though they say:

>The group had been accused by some of using the document to try to legitimize an attempt to seize power from the federal government.

Yes well, the group was also called white supremacists, so lets just look at the real deal.

>By having the Senateof Canadaand theGovernorGeneralof Canadasign this MOU into action, they agree to immediately cease anddesist all unconstitutional, discriminatoryand segregating actionsand human rightsviolations.It calls for animmediate instruction toall levels of the Federal, Provincial, Territorialand Municipal governments to not only stop but furthermore waive all SARS-CoV-2 (and not limited to SARS-CoV-2 subsequent variations)fines that have been issued and imposed upon its citizens, institutions, and private enterprises.Further, to immediately re-instate all employees in all branches ofall levels ofgovernments and not limited to promote the same to the private industry and institutional sectors employees with full lawful employment rights prior to wrongful and unlawful dismissals.Lastly it instructsall levels of government and private Sector that the Illegal use of a Vaccine Passportto cease anddesistimmediately

OK, I can certainly see where some people are coming from, but absolutely don't agree with the conclusion they are trying to seize power. In fact no reading or interpretation of that has them asking for power. They are asking for the GG to simply restore our rights. Which is absolutely something we have in Canada that may seem abnormal to say the USA.

No doubt why the national post doesn't actually copy and paste any of this. This is entirely what the Monarch and GG is supposed to be for. Hurts me to say because I think we should cut all ties to the British monarchy and move toward a republic. Coming back to context of my comments. The use of our monarchy being used as if to be an insurrection is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Our monarchy is still our monarchy. If our monarch decides something, we must abide and that's not insurrection.


> Ottawa has a population of 1 million and their downtown area will always have honking. Like you know... every other downtown area of a large capital city. Calling this 'medically unsafe' is quite a stretch. Our homes are quite insulated here in Canada given the cold. The same insulation reduces road noise a lot. If you cant sleep because of road noise downtown... move because that happens year round.

I've had honking in Downtown Vancouver from a group supporting the convoy and it certainly does not resemble the usual city noise. If it was horrible for the couple hours I experienced then it must have been hell for those Ottawa citizens when it went on for days.


>I've had honking in Downtown Vancouver from a group supporting the convoy and it certainly does not resemble the usual city noise. If it was horrible for the couple hours I experienced then it must have been hell for those Ottawa citizens when it went on for days.

Would you say this honking in vancouver was 'medically unsafe'?


am Ottawan, live about 6 blocks from 2 of the main blocked roads (parliament and kent street) noise is not bad for me, headphones block it out completely. Theyve stopped honking for the last 5 days too fwiw.

"hell" is an overstatement for something that can easily be ignored with earplugs/headphones.

construction work is certainly worse when its nearby as. it penetrates buildings better and often produces noise for longer periods of time. Though for people living less then 1 block the first 2 weekend days were probably irritating.


>As one of the donors included in this hack, I am not entirely sure what they're out to accomplish.

No different than any other cancel culture etc.

>Despite eye-rolling media mischaracterizations of these truckers as you-know-whats, it's a run of the mill workers strike.

This is very important I learnt this weekend. Not to be glossed over.

Trudeau himself attacked the convoy as fringe minority, racists, sexists, and white supremacists. The 'government accredited' media was very fast to show the nazi flag and confederate flags. Conveniently very expensive professional camera gear right there to take pictures.

Yet the real media went around showing that the group is pretty diverse. https://notthebee.com/article/come-and-laugh-with-me-at-the-...

So what gives? Well what happened? Antivaxxers are unemployed? But who are the antivaxxers? ~50% of black canadians are unwilling to get vaccinated. ~25% of arabic and indian canadians are unwilling. When the average is ~85%. It means whites are above 85%. I didn't know this.

It means Trudeau and the 'government accredited' media who rushed out this narrative that they are white supremacists in fact knew they were disproportionally harming not-whites. That to label this convoy as white supremacist might discourage not-whites from joining. This 1 nazi flag has to be a journalist because the convoy is certainly not white supremacist.

At what point does the 'government accredited' media who pushed this white supremacist narrative get labelled government propaganda?


One thing is certain, the data has been manipulated.

In fact, covid was very heavily politicized and censored. Virtually any allegation of 'manipulation' is going to fall on both sides.


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