> an environment that favors profit above everything will naturally select for individuals who are unencumbered by such hindrances.
Exactly. Dairy farms optimise for milk production so favour cows that produce the most milk.
The market economy optimises for profit so favours those most willing/able to generate it. Zuckerberg, Musk, Thiel, Andreesen and co are products of the system.
Former senior British politician Nick Clegg joined Meta in 2018 as vice president for global affairs and communication. He rose to Meta’s president for global affairs in 2022, and left in 2025 for an AI startup.
This would be shortly after Wynn-Williams’ 2017 departure from the policy role she describes in the book at hand. And it would be around the time that word was getting around about Facebook’s role in what Amnesty and the UN described as a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Rohingya minority in Myanmar. Among other things.
That story didn’t go on to a happy ending after 2017, and one imagines that, in the decade since, there have been fewer and fewer situations of strife, geopolitical gamesmanship, and civil conflict where Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp could avoid taking consequential policy decisions.
Meta were enmeshed in ample US domestic drama during that period, too; and Clegg’s replacement in the policy role was someone in the new administration’s orbit. Perhaps that’s fresh on the ancestor commenters’ minds.
Given the culture Ms. Wynn-Williams describes—and the tumult of the decade when he held the policy role—one imagines Mr. Clegg might have some stories to share should he choose to…
Clegg later held the same position but was fired as Facebook decided that it was more politically favorable to stop employing someone in the role that was involved in content moderation (including actions against Donald Trump) and instead hire someone with connections to Donald Trump in January 2025, due to some sort of recent event at at that time.
I guess that the thread is implying his position would have given him access to newer claims, just as Wynn-Williams' had, and the method of his firing might give him motivation to reveal anything he knows.
Personally I feel that might be giving Clegg to much credit.
Clegg was more senior than wynn-williams. Kaplan reported to Clegg
I don't think Clegg will do something like that, because its not really in his way of doing things. He is extraordinarily well connected, and is currently riding the board of directors gravy train.
Always was. Clegg is notorious for getting the Tories into power in 2010 by promising some basic decency, then betraying those promises to prop up the regime responsible for austerity.
He's always been an operator. Moving to Meta after he left politics was an "Oh, of course."
> then betraying those promises to prop up the regime
I mean thats one way to look at it. Another way was, the lib dems traded everything for the chance to change the voting from FPP to proportional representation, and failed.
Yes, he went back on tuition fees, and worse still wasn't able to make it a graduate tax (hence the stupid loan system)
but the gamble was that, and it was clear at the time.
unlucky for the libdems was they didn't get PR and got blamed for the tories being shites, and were wiped out accordingly.
Alternative Vote is not Proportional Representation. And to be very clear, liberal democrat MPs, including Nick Clegg, were photographed with signed papers saying that if they were ever in government they would abolish tuition fees. A cynical ploy to win university constituencies.
That said, the country was reeling from the 2008 banking crisis, that even with a competent PM in Brown (despite his 'ignorant woman') comment was leading a Labour government into its 14th year. Even then David Cameron only won a minority government. If the lib dems hadn't backed the Tories into office, very likely we would have seen a second general election within short order.
> And to be very clear, liberal democrat MPs, including Nick Clegg, were photographed with signed papers saying that if they were ever in government they would abolish tuition fees.
I am well aware, I was in a libdem constituency as they made those promises in the early part of the 2000s. I think its even in one of the uni newspapers.
But the issue is this, government is about compromises. The libdems compromised to get in power. They had a "contract" that allowed for certain policies to be put forward in exchange for other policies by the tories. They thought, nievely that they could contain the worst parts of the osbourne/cameron system in exchange for long term voting reform.
It was a gamble that failed, and they were roundly punished for it.
The problem for us is that labour imploded, which left us with no effective opposition the post libdem years.
Its all very well to say "its a cynical ploy" but given that coalitions outside of war are never a thing in UK politics, its hard to see how the libdems planned it.
I can understand that you are angry about tuition fees. the unforgivable bit was the loan system rather than a graduate tax. Its regressive, it was known to be regressive at the time. But the tories wanted a loan and thus, here we are.
Hrm. Labour was vastly unpopular. The biggest power move the LibDems could do was install preferential voting (which would harm the two party system by allowing eg
1 minor party
2 major party
3 other major party
...preference votes), and the British public (stupidly, but that is their decision) rejected it. He couldn't eg freeze tuition fees because the LibDems were a junior partner in the coalition. The vote on preferential voting was far more significant, if the LibDems could pick one of the other, it was right to pick preferential voting.
The British public blew it, because they bizarrely chose to have less of their own voting intentions recorded.
But that’s not the reason he got elected. He got elected because he promised to end student loans.
If someone says to you, “I’m going to take your money and bet it all on black on the roulette table.” and then comes back and says “sorry I lot it all because I bet it all on 22,” you’d be pissed! Now imagine they come back and say “not only have I lost it all but I borrowed an additional 3x in your name and also lost that”.
AV was an absolute non issue to most voters who elected them. Student debt was no1. Doesn’t matter if you think you know better than the people who elected you, it was a stupid gamble.
If the LibDems won the election, he would have reduced tuition fees.
The LibDems, however, did not win the election.
If preferential voting happened, the LibDems and every other minor party could have had *vast ongoing influence over student loans and every other matter for generations to come*.
> AV was an absolute non issue to most voters who elected them.
Yes.
"Democracy basically means: Government by the people, of the people, for the people.... but the people are retarded."
I think the story about the Trump decision is likely to have a politically explosive aspect to it.
Because Zuckerberg had dragged his feet about creating the board until they needed the board in order to launder a decision they knew they might need to make.
But he wasn't just the oversight board; he was president of global affairs for three-odd years.
I don't intend to give Clegg credit, particularly. I'm not a fan. I'm just saying that people like him write books and he will surely have been approached to do so.
I am making no allegation, to be clear. I was just having a bit of fun with the way I said it.
But it's obvious that Facebook want to make writing anything about them in a book and then publicising it an absolutely miserable experience.
I would say the very obvious target of such a message is Nick Clegg, no?
He's already written one memoir of his time in politics (didn't sell that well because he didn't have all that many fans left) but as a former Deputy Prime Minister in a really unusual coalition government, I think he's likely to have enough insights he will want to put in a book again by now (since it's plausible we be heading towards a coalition government involving the Lib Dems again, and he will think there are lessons to learn).
He also co-created the Facebook/Meta Oversight Board, which reported to him, and was the organisation finally constituted, ultimately, in time to de-platform Trump, which it then did.
And then he was president of global affairs.
He then left Meta shortly before it noticeably, shamefully and transactionally pivoted towards being Trump-compatible.
This is a book everyone wants to read, right? About the nexus of politics, extremism and social media.
I think the flip side is that Nick Clegg is probably not a great choice of person to threaten. He's already had the utterly miserable experience of going from unusually popular politician to person personally blamed for reneging on commitments in the coalition government (a route he chose for himself), he's not American and doesn't live there any more or particularly want to go back, and is politically connected enough to not struggle to put together a legal team that's happy to take on Meta, potentially without him even needing to dip into his fairly deep pockets.
And frankly getting into a shit fight with an unpopular American billionaire where he's actually the good guy would be pretty good reputation laundering for Clegg, and make a book Brits would be inclined to dismiss as self-serving nonsense sound like it had actual revelations in it. And he'd probably greatly enjoy doing a round of podcasts and TV interviews where he's not the bad guy saying sorry any more.
> Id honestly wager that at you and most of the people who are agreeing with you in the comments don't make the meta SDE salary, and if offered the 300k/year positions at Meta, even for a limited time, you would absolutely take it
Not OP but I can say with 100% truth and certainty that it wouldn’t matter how much money they offered - I would not work for meta. Some things matter more than money.
Exactly this. The “one UI to rule them all” paradigm has been a persistent, recurring flaw for decades. It probably hit its lowest (to date) with the exhortations to “mobile first design”. The motivation for that was reasonable: conventional desktop UIs of the time didn’t render on mobile. However the ensuing “mobile first” instead became “mobile only” - and consequently wide screen displays with buttons the size of elephants.
Phones and desktops are so radically different that your sedan/bulldozer analogy seems like shades of grey. It’s more like taking a Saturn V rocket to the local shop for a pint of milk.
Instead of what - vast data centres full of electronics, consuming huge quantities of electricity, controlled by techno-feudalistic megacorps who keep almost all of the money and supply a pittance to the artists? Everything has a cost but those records, CDs and cassettes look like a good deal from here. I still have LPs I inherited from my parents. They still play on my 20 year old turntable.
Do you think DVDs were manufactured in mom and pop workshops untainted by corporate influence? Quite the opposite actually. Every DVD and DVD drive legally sold had to pay licensing fees! So is blueray!
> Instead of what - vast data centres full of electronics, consuming huge quantities of electricity, controlled by techno-feudalistic megacorps who keep almost all of the money and supply a pittance to the artists?
So what's your alternative, stocking every single video store in the country with plastic discs with DRMs transported by diesel trucks? Do you seriously think the material cost of manufacturing and transporting a disc is less than what it takes to send its contents over the internet?
Yes, I would like to see a full cost comparison. Transferring one time digitally will no doubt cost (a lot) less than physical manufacture and distribution. But it’s not one time transfer: it’s streaming on demand, every time each person listens to each track, because the economic model is rental not purchase.
I use streaming services. I like the flexibility and ubiquity of access. But my favourite music I still buy on cd or vinyl. Why? Because it means I’m not subject to the whims of a megacorp removing access and it means more goes to the artist. I’ve been buying music for 40 years and still listen to some of stuff I bought then. I hope to live long enough to do the same for the music I buy now.
"Transferring one time digitally" DRM-free audio files is possible and above-board (i.e., you pay and the artist gets paid) through services like bandcamp.com and their ilk. Of course your artist needs to have their music there first.
No, store it on your computer/phone/iPod. But honestly data centers are probably very efficient for this. I'm not going to do the math, but storing data on flash and serving it to billions of people probably is efficient if I had to guess.
I would like to see a full cost comparison. Centralised storage - replicated, distributed and maintained online as necessary - vs media that, once manufactured and distributed, essentially costs nothing to maintain. iPods/phones get replaced much more frequently than LPs/casettes/CDs. And that’s just the resource consumption comparison. There’s then the economic polarisation of wealth to the small handful of online music renters vs distributed ownership (of copies: the original work of art remains with the artist, at least in theory).
Couldn't you just extrapolate the same reasons people say living in urban areas is more efficient than rural?
It seems trivial to see that storing all the music in 1 or more DCs for the entire world is more efficient than a whole industry to create and redistribute plastics and specialized devices to play this plastic.
>vs media that, once manufactured and distributed, essentially costs nothing to maintain
Eh, not really, it costs it's own storage and care. This is not free even if you have discounted in to the rest of the cost of your life. Not destroying LPs for example is a good bit of work.
With music itself, it's electronic storage is insanely cheap. One middleling server could easily contain just about the entirety of all mankinds works. Parallel distribution really is the bigger factor, and I guess that costs almost nothing itself. Marketing and software around marketing likely is the majority of the cost here.
Trying to compare a cellphone to a record is just not a really workable thing. People are going to have the cellphone anyway. The fact it is a media player is a welcome bonus.
> But I think it corresponds to 8 separate states in an FSM (or statechart? not sure)
In a conventional FSM yes but not a statechart. Statecharts support parallel regions within a single state. You’d have 3 regions for your example: one waiting for each person. There would be 4 states total: one to wait on each person, each in its own region, plus the superstate. The superstate would exit when all 3 “waiting for person <x>” sub states exited, independent of their sequence.
I’m with you on Petri nets though, very helpful for modelling concurrent behaviour.
Thanks to the both of you. I have always just stuck to plain old Control Flow Diagrams, which can be quite tricky to get all the nuances of a FSM. Always been interested to commit to using Statecharts or PetriNets, but I think the usefulness of concurrency tips it over the edge… To Amazon I go
Wonderful article and a good fit with HN’s motto of “move slowly and preserve things” as opposed to Silicon Valley’s jingoistic “move fast and break things”.
It highlights the often perplexing human tendency to reinvent rather than reuse. Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? In doing so, often making mistakes that could have been avoided if we’d taken the time or had the curiosity/humility to learn from others. This seems particularly prevalent in software: “standing on the feet of giants” is a default rather than exception.
That aside, the article was thoroughly educational and enjoyable. I came away with much-deepened insight and admiration for those involved in researching, designing and building the language. Resolved to find and read the referenced “steelman” and language design rationale papers.
> Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart?
Humanity moves from individual to society, not the reverse.
Some knowledge moves from the plural to the singular, top to bottom, but the regular existential mode is bottom-up, which point The Famous Article (TFA) makes in the context of programming languages.
Children and ideas grow from babe to adult. They do not spring full grown from the brow of Zeus other than in myth.
Thanks, that’s helpful. My wife is a teacher and talks about knowledge being recreated, not relearned: IOW it’s new to the learner even if known by the teacher. Hadn’t put those things together before.
Erm, well, the comment wasn’t AI generated, it was by me - a warts and all human. The sibling comments say TFA is AI generated and I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t spot that. Still found it interesting though.
This is the biggest risk with the rejuvenated interest in formal proof. That LLMs can generate proofs is useful. Proof assistants that can check them (Lean/FStar/Isabelle/...) similarly so.
But it just moves the question to whether the theorems covered in the proof are sufficient. Underlying it all is a simple question:
Does the system meet its intended purpose?
To which the next question is:
What is the intended purpose?
Describing that is the holy grail of requirements specification. Natural language, behaviour-driven development, test-driven development and a host of other approaches attempt to bridge the gap between implicit purpose and explicit specification. Proof assistants are another tool in that box.
It's also one of the key motivators for iterative development: putting software in front of users (or their proxies) is still the primary means of validation for a large class of systems.
None of which is implied criticism of any of those approaches. Equally, none completely solves the problem. There is a risk that formal proofs, combined with proof assistants, are trumpeted as "the way" to mitigate the risk that LLM-developed apps don't perform as intended.
They might help. They can show that code is correct with respect to some specification, and that the specification is self-consistent. They cannot prove that the specification is complete with regards its intended purpose.
Yeah but the core issue is that all apps for digital services for both private and government, at least in my EU country, are only shipped for the iOS/Android duopoly.
So having yet another 100th FOSS linux phone that won't run those apps is pointless until apps for these phones are shipped with feature parity, and they probably won't get shipped until these phones reach some critical mass adoption, and they won't get critical mass adoption because they don't run the popular apps.
If this is similar to LineageOS, then it's always potentially only a matter of time until some banking and payment apps stop working due to failing security attestation pushed by a Google update.
We need native apps that pass attestation out of the box for that phone/OS, not relying on hacks that may or may not work in the future.
This is not good UX and it poisons the well if you push users to a new platform then they discover some apps don't work as you promised.
Because FIDO2 is not enough for non-tech-savvy people.
The main issue is potential confusion about what transaction they’re actually signing. For example, a malicious browser extension can pretend the site sends money to X while actually sending it to Y.
The European PSD2 directive mandates that the 2FA scheme must let the user see what they’re about to sign. At the very least, that includes the amount and part of the recipient’s IBAN. FIDO2 doesn’t have that.
It’s the reason I own a device that looks like this [0]. Without it, I wouldn’t be able to transfer money at all due to the lack of banking apps that work on Linux phones.
In this case, wouldn't FIDO2 only be used to log into the bank's website, not to sign individual transactions? (Corresponding to Mode2 in the Wikipedia article you provided?) Would this "mode2" only usage be allowed under European law, given that there is no transaction involving an amount of money taking place?
Banks used to give us those RSA tokens in the past for securely logging in to the web UI, but then discovered they can cut down on cost since everyone has two brands of smartphones.
No doubt. At least with FIDO2, people can provide their own hardware key, and get real security rather than a rolling number generated by a compromised algorithm [1].
Your point seems to be "Some Jolla phones can run some Android apps," while GP's issue is that "It's not true that all Jolla phones can run all Android apps."
Exactly. Dairy farms optimise for milk production so favour cows that produce the most milk.
The market economy optimises for profit so favours those most willing/able to generate it. Zuckerberg, Musk, Thiel, Andreesen and co are products of the system.